I've replied to a few folks in the newsgroups who were upset that Outlook for Mac no longer existed. Not to be confused with Outlook Express for Mac, Outlook for Mac was only used in corporations with Exchange email servers. Some corporate Mac users prefered Outlook and wanted to know why Microsoft replaced it with Entourage.
They didn’t really. This is what happened.
Anyone familiar with large corporations will understand that while Microsoft was indeed one company, it was a large company made of many smaller and separate business groups. Not all of these groups had the same resources and capabilities because of the products they produced. And they didn't always share or cooperate with each other.
The Exchange Server group within Microsoft developed Outlook 98 and Outlook 2001 for Mac. It was this group that also ceased development of Outlook for Mac. Why? Probably because the Macintosh platform was not a moneymaking platform for them and so few Macs were actually recognized as corporate citizens. The Macintosh Business Unit (MacBU), however, realized this would leave a huge hole in the corporate world for Macs and the Macintosh platform was its primary customer. They decided to pick up the Exchange client development for Macs and incorporate that into Entourage.
Why didn't the MacBU just continue with Outlook? The answer is that they already had Entourage. Entourage was a home email client before it was ever an Exchange Server client. Because they already had the code base for Entourage (and possibly other more political, corporate reasons) the MacBU decided to make Entourage the next Mac Exchange Server client rather than trying to develop two similar but different products.
Entourage X 10.1.4 was the first stab at connecting Entourage to Exchange. Notice that this new connectivity was introduced not in version 10.0.0 and not in version 10.1.0 but in version 10.1.4. That indicated it was a minor update to Entourage and not a full implementation for Exchange Server connectivity. The MacBU scrambled to get something released for Mac OS X users where nothing except Outlook 2001 in Classic mode existed. Keep in mind that at this point the MacBU was picking up what the Exchange Server business unit simply dropped.
Entourage 2004 introduced many new Exchange features. Technically, this was the first iteration of it offering anything remotely close to what Outlook 2001 offered. The MacBU had a decision to make: they could either go with Outlook for Windows proprietary protocols and formats (MAPI, OST and PST) or they could go with platform agnostic standards. Standards in this situation meant WebDAV and MBOX file formats. This had to be a tough decision but one that today allows information to move more easily between Entourage and other applications such as Apple Mail, iCal and the Address Book.
Entourage 2004 11.0.0 was just a first attempt at getting in the features that were most needed in an Exchange client. It was not an attempt to get in every feature that Outlook for Windows offered. The MacBU simply didn’t have the resources to port over everything from Outlook for Windows. At the time they were also responsible for their other Mac products such as Office, Internet Explorer, Remote Desktop Connection and Messenger... and they were a young business group, only five or six years old.
Entourage 2004 sp2 (version 11.2.0) was a major release for Exchange Server support. In fact it was almost entirely an Exchange support release that incorporated even more needed features. Again, the MacBU wasn’t trying to get in every feature—just more needed features. And they had to prioritize those features based on customer feedback. The lack of things like server side rules and PST files may appear to be huge oversights but were really just lower on the priority list compared to the need for better public folder support, the ability to browse the GAL (not just search) and other features present today.
Outlook for Mac was never as full-featured as Outlook for Windows and while Entourage 2004 may not have the same feature set as Outlook for Mac it definitely has some Exchange features that were never present before such as Internet connectivity to Exchange (via OWA), certificate support, scripting support and Messenger integration.
Based on the MacBU’s continued improvement of Entourage I have every confidence that they will continue to add Exchange features to Entourage bringing it more into line with the capabilities of Outlook for Windows. They’ve been very aggressive about it for the short amount of time they've had to get this far.
Comments (24)
Ah ha, that is very interesting.
It does explain a lot, as I had often wondered why Entourage did not have a lot of the features in Outlook.
A correction .. Entourage started talking to Exchange Server with 10.1.4 Update for Entourage X, released on Aug. 4th, 2003, not 10.1.6 as mentioned in this blog.
You are correct, sir! The specific updater found here does indeed refer to 10.1.4. I'm correcting the entry. Hmm... "rageguy"...
I don't care what MS call their Mac email software. I just demand that they allow it to import email and other data from Outlook to the Mac.
All the above explanations are just spin. Right now, the absence of Mac-Outlook is a huge obstacle to people wanting to transition from PC to Mac, because they can't easily transfer their Outlook data to Mac.
And that's exactly how Bill Gates wanted it.
The fact that Entourage uses the OWA system to Sync mail with the Exchange server is totally inferior to a direct MAPI client system.
I'm all for standards but they should have implemented BOTH ways so admins could chose the best way for their environment. It's not like they didn't have the MAPI code to do so.
I support many Mac clients with Exchange servers and the lack of MAPI support is a total PITA. The sync system gets out of whack and we have to rebuild the mail store on the client end. Out of Office support is non-existent and the OWN system doesn't work most of the time with Firefox or Safari.
Pathetic really.
William
Surely with the large pool of Macintosh Laptops, iMac & coming on line and Bill/Ray Ozzie/Steve Balmers desire to tap in to the "On-Demand" or in microsoft lingo "Live" world why can't you build a client that imports/exports windows Outlook data (ie via & to Pst files) however provides a "Live" server for syncing to windows mobile phone or iPhones.
David Thompson & Anoop Gupta are leaving a large opportunity to close out Microsoft strangle hold on the Personal and Corporate messaging market.
Surely it won't take Google too long before they close out this market and take a serious bite in to Microsoft Personal & corporate messaging market.
Also could I ask you what the interoperability story will be like between Outlook 2007 & Entourage 2008? I would be interested in adopting a dual booting Mac Book Pro (on Vista & Mac Leopard OS), but seriously concerned about not being able to be interoperable with my Window Palm 750 and Windows Outlook 2007
a sad story of corporate politics leaving users out in the cold, again.
the recent post on microsoft MacMoJo (Office for Mac) blog promises great things for Mac Exchange support. But for reasons unknown, this great Exchange support will not be included in the educational licensed version of Mac Office '08!
i work at a large art university in the UK, we are more than 50% Mac but unfortunately our IT dept are heavily PC biased and our email and calendaring is 100% Exchange based (this happened 7 years ago with promises that Outlook on Mac was fully supported by MS).
We are now in the situation that we either purchase full price Office Mac, or continue with Entourage 2004's seriously limited exchange support.
Another great win for the users, thanks again.
bring on Leopard server and CalDAV.
Just a note that Windows folks are in the same boat. Outlook is not included at all in the Home & Student version of Office 2007. But at least it can be purchased separately unlike Entourage.
Because Exchange Server 2007 no longer includes a client license (Outlook for Windows or Entourage for Mac) Educational institutions will most likely need to work with their Microsoft representatives for those client licenses and the Outlook and Entourage software.
I'd like to know the "why" behind this change in licensing myself but I think it's safe to say that this is beyond just Mac, Entourage and MacBU. This is an all-around Microsoft change in licensing.
Thank you for posting. I appreciate your comments.
I too welcome the possiblity of an interoperable standard that CalDAV might bring(It all hinges on others, like MS and IBM, adopting it)
Microsoft licensing is such a complicated mess so I could be off on this but when we updated to Exchange 2003 the media kit included both Entourage v.X and Entourage 2004 discs in addition to Outlook 2003. The discs had only the mail client on them no Word, Excel and company. From what I understand, the exchange CAL grants you rights to any of the mail clients, Outlook or Entourage, and whether you have Office or not.
Hi Jerky!
You're correct about Exchange Server 2003 licensing. Each account license included a Client Access License (CAL) and a client license, which was either Outlook for Windows or Entourage 2004 for Mac.
Exchange Server 2007 licensing is different. It no longer includes a client license.
What's Microsoft thinking!?
I don't understand most of what was said above, but I do seriously miss the ability of Entourage to work with pictures. In Outlook (apparently uses Word as driver), you can insert pictures, then access all the "draw" features Word has (resize, crop, insert arrows/shapes, text boxes, and then group them into a single unit jpg). This is extremely helpful on so many levels. I know there are work arounds, but it involves so many extra steps. Am I missing something?
PLEASE HELP!
I recently set up a new Mac Pro with Leopard only to find that I can't figure out how to set up and connect my Entourage email. My previous Mac used Outlook, and my corporation uses Outlook and Exchange servers for their PCs. Of course, IT won't help me because they only support PCs and not a Mac! I tried to figure it out all day and am ready to rip the rest of my hair out. Can anyone help via email or phone call? It would probably take a few minutes for someone who actually knows what they are doing, and I can get all settings and info off my old Mac and current PC if necessary. THANKS!
Erik 602-436-2059 or erik.nashawaty@honeywell.com
hi can some one help me in trancfering mails from outlook express to mac .
thanks
Hi gajendra!
A few helpful links for you:
Convert Mail from Windows to Mac
http://entourage.mvps.org/cross_platform/win_mac.html
Importing from Outlook for Windows based PST to Entourage
http://blog.entourage.mvps.org/2007/08/importing_from_outlook_for_win.html
Importing from Outlook for Windows based PST to Entourage
http://blog.entourage.mvps.org/2007/08/importing_from_outlook_for_win.html
If you have any specific questions then be sure to post them in the Microsoft newsgroup for Entourage found here:
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.mac.office.entourage
Hi - Am realizing what a hideous mistake I have made going from PC to Apple. Their ridiculous mail program is awful. As far as I can tell you can't even make a copy of the message you are sending to a folder without having to retrieve it from the universal sent msg folder first. My 9 year old version of Express made e-mail so much easier to organize. I had been looking forward to the sort of functionality I had in Outlook before I had to switch to Express due to program corruption. You can't even click to flag a msg in the Apple Mail. You either have to know the shortcut key sequence or go to the menu. And the help files! Such worthless "help." So I was looking for Outlook for Mac, only to fine it doesn't exist. Perfect!
Bill -- As someone who used to work at MSFT (over 13 years) including time working with some folks from the MacBU in the mid 90s, it is interesting to read your take on things. I don't necessarily agree with all of it, but do understand some of the decisions the team made in regards to Entourage 2004. However, I think the team missed some of the boat with their 2008 release in not addressing many cross-platform issues.
While it is critical that Entourage support Mac standards as you indicate, it is also important to understand their core constituency. First off, there are the loyal Mac fans who will mainly use the Apple core products such as Mac Mail, iCal, etc. It is highly unlikely that they would switch to using Entourage. But Entourage needs to support them. Then there is the other crowd which includes folks who use, have used or may want to use Windows at some point. This is the majority of the market and includes business users. Also, with Apples switch to Intel processors, many are considering a Mac knowing they can run Windows on it if they want.
So one would expect that Entourage 2008 really address concerns from their core constituency. OK, they do support Exchange which is needed, but basic Outlook support is lacking and this is not good. The fact that you can't easily export/import a PST from Outlook 2007 to Entourage 2008 is an embarrassing thing for MSFT. There is no good solution for sharing calendars or contacts. I can't even subscribe to an Outlook Calendar I publish on Office Online. Same thing with Contacts.
The Mac Office team is also dealing with cross-platform problems for note taking. Mac Word's Note Layout view is nice, but proprietary and not even supported on Winword. And sadly, one of MSFT's best new apps in many years (OneNote) is not even supported on the Mac.
Microsoft's new Office Live Workspace already has add-ins for their Window's Office products (Word, Excel, PPT) to allow editing directly. But no Mac version yet and will there ever be one.
The bottom-line is that their cross-plat story is not good at all. Exchange and Sharepoint are nice "corporate" solutions, but not for small business (or individuals) which makes up over 80% of the market. And the days of import/export are outdated. The new solutions need to allow for live syncing of data including mail, calendars, contacts, todos and notes.
Randy
Hi I'm using Entourage 2008 on Leopard to connect to my companies Exchange Servers. It works pretty well for what I want to do i.e. use my Mac for receiving emails, managing calendar and appointments and so on. So thanks for the hard work creating this product, so far so good and I'm very pleased the Mac BU exists at MS.
I'm having trouble connecting to our GAL though, not sure the address of our LDAP servers or if they are exposed externally.
I assume that just because Outlook can access the Global Address Book over the internet, it might be using MAPI or whatever and that doesn't automatically mean I can get Entourage to work ?
Are there any resources online that provide support specifically for configuring the LDAP / GAL ?
Naturally our corporate IT dept doesn't hear from many Mac users and so have no idea of what I'm talking about.
Baron.
Hi Baron!
This will probably explain what's happening and you can download an AppleScript that will allow you to look up addresses from outside your company's network.
"Accessing the Global Address List from Home"
http://entourage.mvps.org/exchange/exchangelookups.html
Also, have a look at my newer blog post that goes into more detail about why some things work and some don't when connecting Entourage to Exchange.
"Optimize Entourage to better work with Exchange"
http://blog.entourage.mvps.org/2008/03/optimize_entourage_to_better_work_with_exchange.html
While we do enjoy hearing from folks about our posts our capacity to answer many individual questions is very limited. Please be sure to visit the Microsoft Entourage newsgroup where we and others help answer questions. You can access the newsgroup through Google Groups or using Entourage:
"How to subscribe to the Microsoft Entourage newsgroup"
http://entourage.mvps.org/support_options/subnews.html
Good luck!
I'm currently using cablevision's optimum online and I can't for the life of me get Entourage to work with my imac G5. Can this be done? Or am I just wishing?
[What is optimum online? I have Comcast cable and it works just like any ISP. See Account Setup for help] Diane Ross
I find it outrageous that the .pst file format is not supported for importing elements in Entourage 2008. I mean seriously: the codebase for importing MUST be availible inside Microsoft, it can't be that difficult to code: i smell a corporate (read: $$$) descision...
If its not a management descision, it's even worse: being a developer and project lead myself i feel that this essential, must-have feature was clearly under-valued during the requirements-engineering phase of the current release-planning... i mean please, sure comming from different codebase from outlook and all, but please engage brain: MILLIONS of people will be sitting infront of thier brand-new (very beautiful) macs thinking: you cant be serious. this experience is very frustrating...
after reading a little about he many different "formats" that a pst file can have i am not surprised that the developers of entourage are not fond of the idea to code import filters for all these different formats...
but thinking of the all the "problems" i see in MS Products (ones which, of course, usually will never be seen by joe-average pc-user) like multiple implementations of the same functions (think copy&paste across office), or VB missing in mac office...
there is a reason that IT-savvy users are flocking to alternate OSses and Vendors. i hope MS will wake up and smell the coffe or else they will continue to loose marketshare...
So I have read all the above comments, and I still do not know; Can I (some way) view/use my .pst Outlook files with my new imac; whatever the process is!
As usual these developers don't seem to live on the same planet that the rest of us do. I hope their pay cheques are as large as their IQs!
Simply put: The .pst file format is only used by Outlook and no other E-mail application.
Several methods have been developed to import the data into other applications but those are one-way processes.
I had to migrate a client from Outlook to Entourage... the way i did it was to use an imap server (which can be downloaded ready to run as a virtual machine from the vmware site).
1. you add an imap user to the server
2. log into the imap server using outlook and move all the mail over to the server (it should keep the folder structure)
3. log into the imap server and download all the mail from the imap server
SUCCESS!
of course that doesnt migrate the contacts and calendar... the contacts can be migrated via a .csv file... the calendar i don't know, wasnt my problem...
good luck & regards, sebastian.
Sebastien
I like the idea of using a temporary IMAP server running in a VM to transfer email from Outlook to Entourage. Was the server you used a free one, or did you purchase it? I had a look on the VMWare site and only found commercial solutions that charge quite a bit.
Thanks.